Nomicapolis - User contributions [en]

User talk:Simulacrum

2006-04-20T18:58:34Z

Sinblox: Hey

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{|
| <big>'''The times that I will contribute will be from sunday evenings to tuesday evenings.'''</big>
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| If you need to reach me for any reason please email me at this address: admin-nomicapolis@hotmail.com
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I agree to start the game with the ruleset as outlined [[Current ruleset]]. [[User:Simulacrum|Simulacrum]] 19:45, 30 March 2006 (PST)

:I'll check out the rules sometime tomorrow, heading off to bed in a minute. Sorry for the delay. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 21:43, 30 March 2006 (PST)
:: Sounds good, shall we begin? [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 18:46, 2 April 2006 (PDT)
::: hehe, thanks. the mailing list will probably be a good idea when we have some more players to keep everyone going. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 21:46, 5 April 2006 (PDT)
::::thanks for the sysop, it may come in handy for some of the editing I do. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:58, 7 April 2006 (PDT)

About how I found this place... Well, it's a long story. Basically, I was looking for tips on a roguelike, [http://www.nethack.org Nethack]. I came across a fan-game about it that used [http://www.dvorakgame.co.uk/rules.html Dvorak rules]. From that, I learned about the nomic rules, and found this place from [http://www.nomic.net nomic.net]. [[User:Mari0mega|Mari0mega]] 15:12, 12 April 2006 (PDT)
== Headers ==

Do we have header templates for rule amendments and repeals? [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 22:36, 11 April 2006 (PDT)

== No problem ==

No problem. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 12:21, 14 April 2006 (PDT)

== Nomic.net message board ==

Hey, I was going to post a message on the Nomic.net board to let people know the game is active but it requires you to wait for moderator approval. I don't think it's happening, it's been well over a week. Would you be up for posting something on there to the effect of "Come join us!"? [http://www.nomic.net/~board/phorum/list.php?1 http://www.nomic.net/~board/phorum/list.php?1] [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:34, 16 April 2006 (PDT)

== Hey ==

Hey, sorry I haven't been around. I'm in exam time right now and extremely busy. Last exam is Monday but I'll try to be around a bit. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 11:58, 20 April 2006 (PDT)

User talk:Applejuicefool

2006-04-20T18:58:25Z

Sinblox: hey

Welcome to the game, thanks for joining and the rule! if you need any help with the wiki or otherwise feel free to drop me a message. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 21:12, 12 April 2006 (PDT)

== hey ==

Hey, sorry I haven't been around. I'm in exam time right now and extremely busy. Last exam is Monday but I'll try to be around a bit. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 11:58, 20 April 2006 (PDT)

Template:Announcements

2006-04-18T05:13:19Z

Sinblox:

<div align="center">
<big><big>Announcements</big></big><br />
<small>
<span class="plainlinks">[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title=Template:Announcements&action=editwatch Watch]</span> - <span class="plainlinks">[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title=Template:Announcements&action=edit Edit]</span>
</small>
</div>

'''Game News:'''

* A page has been created to discuss the direction of the game. Please see [[Game-direction]]
* [[303]], is now a rule. It brings structure to the voting process.
* [[305]], is now a rule. It stops players from gaining or losing points. It will automatically repeal once there are 25 mutable rules.

The following proposals are being voted on:
* [[306]], a proposal to clarify what constitutes a proper proposal and provide a method of dealing with improper proposals.
* [[307]], a proposal to repeal rule [[202]].
* [[308]], a proposal to amend rule [[201]] to remove the term "turn."
* [[309]], a proposal to transmute immutable rule [[105]] into a mutable rule. It requires unanimous consent to pass.

The following proposals are currently up for debate:

* [[310]], a proposal to amend rule [[301]].

'''Meta-News:'''

I changed the sidebar around a bit to have links to the ruleset/proposals. Anyone have any suggestions for it?

New headers have been added to the [[Nomicopolis:Rules_and_proposals_header_boxes|Rules and Proposal headers boxes]] page.

310

2006-04-18T05:06:53Z

Sinblox: oops, fix rule #

{{Proposed amendment}}

Rule 301 is amended to read, in entirety, "In a vote, the following definitions will apply for consent or failure: A simple majority shall constitute a number greater than 50% of total votes. A supermajority shall constitute at least 66% of total votes. Unaminous consent shall constitute all votes being positive. In a vote in which there are more than two options (for example, when there is an election for a title and there are three candidates running), the option which recieves the greatest number of votes will win."

Proposals tutorial

2006-04-18T05:05:34Z

Sinblox: /* List of empty proposal pages */

{| align="center"
|-
| align="center"|<big><big>This is the '''Proposals''' page.</big></big>
|-
| align="center"|<big>Please follow the directions on this page in order to successfully propose a rule-change.</big>
|-
| align="center"|<big>For information on how to write a proposal the right way read the [[Proposals tutorial]].</big>
|}

'''Step 1:''' Read all of the [[Current ruleset|current rules]]. If you feel unsure of what you can legally do or if you want clarification or advice, then ask a current player by visiting the [[Census]] page.

'''Step 2:''' Write a draft of your proposal on your user subpage. To do this click on your username link at the top of the page and edit it to include <pre>[[/My proposal workspace]]</pre> and save it, then click on the new link on your user page and write your proposal. Before you save it please add {{tl|Draft proposal}} '''to the top''' of your draft.

'''Step 3:''' (''Not required'') If you want to do so, invite others to comment on your proposal before you move it to the main namespace.

'''Step 4:''' When you are ready for official discussion and voting of your proposal, move (by clicking on the move tab at the top of the page) your proposal to the lowest numbered empty page listed on this page. '''NOTE: The user sub-page that you moved will now redirect to the destination page, if you want to edit the sub-page again click on the redirect backlink at the top of the new page.''' See [[Help:Redirecting]] for more information.

'''Make sure that your new proposal has the Proposed rule box at the top of the page.''' If needed, add {{tl|Proposed rule}}. If you are proposing to transmute a rule see [[Nomicopolis:Rules and proposals header boxes|Rules and proposals header boxes]] for the particular box that you would need.

'''Add <nowiki>{{</nowiki>subst:vote<nowiki>}}</nowiki> to the proposal's talk page.'''

==List of current proposals==
When voting is complete for each proposal, please change the box at the top of that proposal's page to reflect the decision reached.

# [[306]]
# [[307]]
# [[308]]
# [[309]]
# [[310]]

==List of empty proposal pages==
This is a list of empty proposals. When submitting a proposal use the link at the top of the list and move the link on this list to the list directly above.

# [[311]]
# [[312]]
# [[313]]
# [[314]]
# [[315]]

Proposals tutorial

2006-04-18T05:05:02Z

Sinblox: /* List of current proposals */

Talk:310

2006-04-18T05:03:38Z

Sinblox: /* Proposer's summary and declarations */

Talk:310

2006-04-18T05:01:52Z

Sinblox:

310

2006-04-18T05:01:33Z

Sinblox:

{{Proposed amendment}}

Rule 310 is amended to read, in entirety, "In a vote, the following definitions will apply for consent or failure: A simple majority shall constitute a number greater than 50% of total votes. A supermajority shall constitute at least 66% of total votes. Unaminous consent shall constitute all votes being positive. In a vote in which there are more than two options (for example, when there is an election for a title and there are three candidates running), the option which recieves the greatest number of votes will win."

Game-direction

2006-04-18T04:59:19Z

Sinblox: /* 310 */

Page by [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]]

Nomicopolis is off to a pretty good start right now. It'll be a bit bumpy while we get used to the rules and form a real game but I'm enjoying it already. I created this discussion page so we can discuss the game direction over all. Feel free to add sections and comment on anything.

== Players ==

There's three of us active right now and two on the census that haven't posted in at least a few days. I'm going to attempt to contact them. It will give the chance of unanimous consent on [[309]] which requires it. I think we may need to make a proposal that declares players inactive after a certain amount of inactivity.

If anyone knows of any people who may be interested, this game could easily take on a few more players.

: That's the reason [[301]] was introduced so soon in the game, it defines '''unaminous consent''' as all votes being positive. For example, if there are 100 players and only 2 votes (''quorum achieved per [[304]]'') in favor, while no one votes against then it has unaminous consent. [[User:Simulacrum|Simulacrum]] 15:56, 17 April 2006 (PDT)

== Governor General? ==

I haven't yet proposed this, I'd just like to get some feedback on it.

Governor General:

''
# There shall always be a player designated "Governor General". This player's authority is activated when a player has the won the game or the game is unplayable or when there is unanimous consent for their powers to be activated.
#The Governor General is elected by a simple majority. The Governor General may be recalled from their position at any time by a simple majority.
#The Governor General may resign at any time without consequence.
#When the Governor General's powers are activated their role is to make the game playable again. To do so, they have the authority to repeal rules, amend rules and to reset any attributes such as point counts of all players to an equal amount. The Governor General should make the minimum amount of changes possible to make the game workable again and should make all players equal in status.
#Any changes the Governor General makes when their powers are activated is completely up to their discrestion, but may be over ridden by unanimous consent (excluding the Governor General in this vote.)''
#Once the Governor General's powers have been activated and they have finished making the game playable and equalizing players, they shall no longer be Governor General and a new election for this title shall be called. This does not preclude this player from becoming Governor General again.

:In theory I'm in favor of player differentiation such as unique roles for players. I had been toying with the idea of proposing the position of '''Supreme Grammarian''' whose job is to summarily correct grammar and spelling errors in the rules. I have an English degree and am certified to teach English (though I'm teaching science - go figure) and minor errors occasionally glare out at me. This game is the ultimate rules-lawyer game and these errors could potentially be abused. Another idea would be the '''Metanomic General.''' This position would rotate through the players - once its power is used, the position would automatically rotate to the next player on the census. The power is this: The Metanomic General would devise a meta-rule which provides some stylish limit or outline which rule change proposals must follow in order to be considered proper. A meta-rule would last a month, at which time the next MG would implement his meta-rule. Examples might be: Rule proposals must be in verse; Rule proposals may not use the letter "e"; Rule proposals must consist of a single sentence; etc.
:Anyway, the Governer General is a good idea. I think that, if winning simply resets the game, then there should be some in-game benefit for previous game winners - that way there's some built-in incentive to win. [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 22:06, 15 April 2006 (PDT)

:: I like those suggestions, especially the '''Supreme Grammarian'''. My nomic experience is pretty limited but I have seen well-meaning rules exploited by very minor loop holes, so someone who can copy edit would be good in keeping our rules tight. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:18, 16 April 2006 (PDT)

== Rule 301 ==

I want to bring to attention a potential flaw in rule 301. Rule 301 states:

''In a vote, the following definitions will apply for consent or failure: A simple majority shall constitute a number greater than 50% of total votes. A supermajority shall constitute at least 66% of total votes. Unaminous consent shall constitute all votes being positive.''

In reality, a simple majority is whatever recieves the biggest chunk of the vote, whether or not it's 50% or more.

Now, at this point it doesn't matter, we only have "for" and "against" things we vote for. Consider, however, if in the future we were electing someone to a title such as the Governor General suggestion I made.

Player A recieves 35% of the vote
Player B recieves 40% of the vote
Player C recieves 25% of the vote

In this case, since our simply majority constitutes 50% of the vote, none of these players are electable. Is it agreed that we need to change the definition of simple majority to just mean the majority of the votes against all else, and create a new definition of "absolute majority" which is 50% or more of the vote?

:Actually, in "real life" a simple majority IS 50% or more. The largest chunk of the votes as in your ABC example is called a ''plurality''. We may need to amend this rule to include pluralities. [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 21:47, 15 April 2006 (PDT)

:: Ooops. You're right. How does this sound?

''In a vote, the following definitions will apply for consent or failure: A simple majority shall constitute a number greater than 50% of total votes. A supermajority shall constitute at least 66% of total votes. Unaminous consent shall constitute all votes being positive. In a vote in which there are more than two options (for example, when there is an election for a title and there are three candidates running), the option which recieves the greatest number of votes will win.'' [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:18, 16 April 2006 (PDT)
: I like it. [[User:Simulacrum|Simulacrum]] 21:13, 16 April 2006 (PDT)
: Sounds good. [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 07:33, 17 April 2006 (PDT)

=What's a Quorum?=

What do ya'll think about this amendment?

==310==
Proposed by [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 07:22, 17 April 2006 (PDT)

Rule 304 is hereby '''amended''' to read, in entirety:

1. A ''quorum'' is defined as either 50%, or 2, of the players allowed to vote under the current ruleset, whichever is greater.

2. In the case a proposed rule change does not receive a quorum of legal votes (whether ''for'', ''against'', or ''abstention''), it may not be enacted.

: I like it, keeps it from having to be constantly updated when we get new players. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 21:59, 17 April 2006 (PDT)

Template:Announcements

2006-04-18T04:56:37Z

Sinblox:

<div align="center">
<big><big>Announcements</big></big><br />
<small>
<span class="plainlinks">[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title=Template:Announcements&action=editwatch Watch]</span> - <span class="plainlinks">[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title=Template:Announcements&action=edit Edit]</span>
</small>
</div>

'''Game News:'''

* A page has been created to discuss the direction of the game. Please see [[Game-direction]]
* [[303]], is now a rule. It brings structure to the voting process.
* [[305]], is now a rule. It stops players from gaining or losing points. It will automatically repeal once there are 25 mutable rules.

The following proposals are being voted on:
* [[306]], a proposal to clarify what constitutes a proper proposal and provide a method of dealing with improper proposals.
* [[307]], a proposal to repeal rule [[202]].
* [[308]], a proposal to amend rule [[201]] to remove the term "turn."
* [[309]], a proposal to transmute immutable rule [[105]] into a mutable rule. It requires unanimous consent to pass.

'''Meta-News:'''

I changed the sidebar around a bit to have links to the ruleset/proposals. Anyone have any suggestions for it?

New headers have been added to the [[Nomicopolis:Rules_and_proposals_header_boxes|Rules and Proposal headers boxes]] page.

Template:Announcements

2006-04-18T04:55:19Z

Sinblox:

<div align="center">
<big><big>Announcements</big></big><br />
<small>
<span class="plainlinks">[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title=Template:Announcements&action=editwatch Watch]</span> - <span class="plainlinks">[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title=Template:Announcements&action=edit Edit]</span>
</small>
</div>

'''Game News:'''

* A page has been created to discuss the direction of the game. Please see [[Game-direction]]
* [[303]], is now a rule. It brings structure to the voting process.
* [[305]], is now a rule. It stops players from gaining or losing points. It will automatically repeal once there are 25 mutable rules.

The following proposals are being voted on:
* [[307]], a proposal to repeal rule [[202]].
* [[308]], a proposal to amend rule [[201]] to remove the term "turn."
* [[309]], a proposal to transmute immutable rule [[105]] into a mutable rule. It requires unanimous consent to pass.

The following proposals are up for debate:
* [[306]], a proposal to clarify what constitutes a proper proposal and provide a method of dealing with improper prosals.

'''Meta-News:'''

I changed the sidebar around a bit to have links to the ruleset/proposals. Anyone have any suggestions for it?

New headers have been added to the [[Nomicopolis:Rules_and_proposals_header_boxes|Rules and Proposal headers boxes]] page.

Current ruleset

2006-04-18T04:52:52Z

Sinblox:

This is the current ruleset. Any changes to this must be approved as outlined within the ruleset. To propose any change to this ruleset please go to the [[Proposals]] page and follow the instructions there. If there is any inconsistency between this list and individual rules pages, the individual rules as displayed on their respective pages shall prevail. Please update this page with any recent changes to the rules as outlined on the proposal page. See the category '''[[:Category:Current rule|Current rule]]''' for a up-to-date list of all the current rules.

==Immutable Rules==
===[[101]]===
All players must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-116 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable).

===[[102]]===
Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.

===[[103]]===
A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.

(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.)

===[[104]]===
All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.

===[[105]]===
All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.

===[[106]]===
All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on.

===[[107]]===
No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.

===[[108]]===
Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.

If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.

===[[109]]===
Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.

===[[110]]===
In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule.

===[[111]]===
If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

===[[112]]===
The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.

===[[113]]===
A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed.

===[[114]]===
There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible.

===[[115]]===
Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule.

===[[116]]===
Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it.

==Mutable Rules==
===[[201]]===
A Player may take a turn at any time. All players begin with zero points.

===[[202]]===
One turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) subtracting 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiply the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer. (This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.)

===[[203]]===
A rule-change is adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. If this rule is not amended by the end of the second complete circuit of turns, it automatically changes to require only a simple majority.

===[[204]]===
If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each.

===[[205]]===
An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it.

===[[206]]===
When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points.

===[[207]]===
Each player always has exactly one vote.

===[[208]]===
The winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points.

===[[209]]===
At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules.

===[[210]]===
If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.

===[[211]]===
If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the most recent player that took a turn is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment.

When Judgment has been invoked, no rule-change may be voted on without the consent of a majority of the other players.

The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate.

Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge.

New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards.

===[[212]]===
If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner.

This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner.

===[[301]]===
In a vote, the following definitions will apply for consent or failure: A simple majority shall constitute a number greater than 50% of total votes. A supermajority shall constitute at least 66% of total votes. Unaminous consent shall constitute all votes being positive.

===[[302]]===

Players are limited to one Nomicapolis account in play. A new player may join by registering an account and then adding themselves to the census. A player may leave be removing themselves from the census. If a player who has left the game wishes to rejoin, they may do so, but they will start as a brand new player.

===[[303]]===

1. When a rule is proposed, there will be a period of three days of debate until it may be voted on.

1.1 If any player requests it, the debate time will be extended until this player is satisfied or they have abandoned the discussion.

1.1.1 This objection time may be overridden at anytime by the player who proposed the rule thus bringing the proposal straight to a vote.

1.1.2 If three days have elapsed and there is already votes registered for a proposal, no player may extend debate time, including the player who proposed it.

1.2 The proposing player may declare the proposal ready for vote before the three days have elapsed.

2. No player may modify the article page of a proposal while a vote is being conducted on that proposal, except to place a protection on the page.

3. If a rule gains the number of "for" votes required to pass or the number of "against" votes required to be defeated, any player may declare an end to voting on the proposal. If voting ends on a passing proposal, the player who declared the vote ended must immediately make the proposed change to the published ruleset. If voting ends on a defeated proposal, no player may add it to the ruleset.

===[[304]]===

Quorum for a vote shall be no fewer than 2 players.

===[[305]]===

1. No player may gain or lose points. This rule takes precedence over all other mutable rules.

2. If there exist at any time 25 mutable rules, this rule is automatically repealed.

Talk:305

2006-04-18T04:49:48Z

Sinblox:

This is the discussion page for a current mutable rule. Its vote archive can be found at this location: [[Talk:305/vote-archive-1]]

Talk:305/vote-archive-1

2006-04-18T04:49:11Z

Sinblox:

:: I declare this proposal carried [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 21:47, 17 April 2006 (PDT)


== Proposer's summary and declarations ==
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=1 Proposer: Add your summary here]
: Hi! The point of this proposal is to limit the acquisition of points until we decide where we're taking this game. My idea is that points will not be a part of the game until we reach the current maximum number of rules, at which time we can start gaining/losing points. Of course, if we get to a solid ruleset and we decide we're ready to start playing for the win, we can always repeal this rule early. I'm a new player...I tried to host a Nomic game once before and it folded unceremoniously. I don't want to come in and make a whole bunch of radical rules (to start with, anyway) - I just want the game to be about something other than points at the beginning. What do ya'll think? [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 14:15, 12 April 2006 (PDT)

: I like this. I was actually going to suggest repealing the rule that gives points, but this works better. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 21:11, 12 April 2006 (PDT)
:: I was going to just carry this one but I'll wait until at least one more for vote, unless someone else wants to do it. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 17:57, 14 April 2006 (PDT)

== Debate ==
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=2 Add comments]




== Vote ==
=== For ===
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=4 Add FOR vote]
# [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 21:11, 12 April 2006 (PDT)
# [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 21:40, 12 April 2006 (PDT)
# [[User:Simulacrum|Simulacrum]] 20:58, 16 April 2006 (PDT)

=== Against ===
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=5 Add AGAINST vote]
# 

__NOEDITSECTION__

305

2006-04-18T04:48:24Z

Sinblox:

{{Current mutable rule}}

==305==

1. No player may gain or lose points. This rule takes precedence over all other mutable rules.

2. If there exist at any time 25 mutable rules, this rule is automatically repealed.

Talk:305

2006-04-18T04:47:26Z

Sinblox: vote carried

Current ruleset

2006-04-18T04:46:32Z

Sinblox: add 303

Talk:303

2006-04-18T04:44:46Z

Sinblox:

This is the discussion page for a current mutable rule. Its vote archive can be found at this location: [[Talk:303/vote-archive-1]]

Talk:303

2006-04-18T04:44:32Z

Sinblox:

This is the discussion page for a current mutable rule. Its vote archive can be found at this location: Talk:303/vote-archive-1

Talk:303/vote-archive-1

2006-04-18T04:44:19Z

Sinblox:

:: I declare this proposal carried. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 21:41, 17 April 2006 (PDT)


== Proposer's summary and declarations ==
This is a proposal to add some structure to the way we vote. If you can figure out anyway to format the proposals subsections to look a bit nicer/easier to read that would be appreciated.

== Debate ==
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=2 Add comments]


Per [[210]], rule [[111]] will take precedence if certain criteria is being met. However, I do not see a conflict and I would support this proposal. I do have a suggestion... switch the text in section 2 with section 3.

: Good point. I'll take a look at how I can fix it when I get home tonight. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 09:18, 10 April 2006 (PDT)

Umm...so if it gains enough "against" votes to be defeated, any player may add it to the list of rules? So what's the point of voting it down? [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 21:52, 12 April 2006 (PDT)

:I am generally in favor of the proposal, but think clause 3 "Once a rule has gained the amount of votes it requires in order to become a rule, or it has recieved enough votes to be defeated, any player may modify the game rules to include it" needs to be cleaned up/rewritten for the reason given above. The intent is clear, but I can see this clause being abused to add defeated rules into the game. [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 07:08, 13 April 2006 (PDT)

:: You're right, that was an oversight on my part. I've modified clause 3. Any other suggestions? [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:41, 15 April 2006 (PDT)

:::Gah, guess I'm just picky :) Sorry... I see a problem with clause 2: "No player may modify the article page of a rule when a vote is underway except to place a protection on the page." This could be read "No player may modify the article page of ANY rule when ANY vote is underway...." I think what you want is "No player may modify the article page of a proposal while a vote is being conducted on that proposal, except to place a protection on the page."

:::Clause 3: "3. If a rule gains the amount of "for" votes required in order to become a rule any player may declare the proposal carried and add it to the ruleset. If a rule recieves enough "against" votes to be defeated, any player may declare it defeated" might be better worded "If a rule gains the number of "for" votes required to pass or the number of "against" votes required to be defeated, any player may declare an end to voting on the proposal. If voting ends on a passing proposal, the player who declared the vote ended must immediately make the proposed change to the published ruleset. If voting ends on a defeated proposal, no player may add it to the ruleset." [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 22:24, 15 April 2006 (PDT)

:::: Good amendments, I've added them. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:27, 16 April 2006 (PDT)



== Vote ==
=== For ===
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=4 Add FOR vote]
# [[User:Simulacrum|Simulacrum]] 21:19, 16 April 2006 (PDT)
# [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 07:05, 17 April 2006 (PDT)
# [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 21:41, 17 April 2006 (PDT)
# 

<br />

=== Against ===
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=5 Add AGAINST vote]
# 

__NOEDITSECTION__

303

2006-04-18T04:42:36Z

Sinblox: Proposal > mutable rule

{{Current mutable rule}}

1. When a rule is proposed, there will be a period of three days of debate until it may be voted on.

1.1 If any player requests it, the debate time will be extended until this player is satisfied or they have abandoned the discussion.

1.1.1 This objection time may be overridden at anytime by the player who proposed the rule thus bringing the proposal straight to a vote.

1.1.2 If three days have elapsed and there is already votes registered for a proposal, no player may extend debate time, including the player who proposed it.

1.2 The proposing player may declare the proposal ready for vote before the three days have elapsed.

2. No player may modify the article page of a proposal while a vote is being conducted on that proposal, except to place a protection on the page.

3. If a rule gains the number of "for" votes required to pass or the number of "against" votes required to be defeated, any player may declare an end to voting on the proposal. If voting ends on a passing proposal, the player who declared the vote ended must immediately make the proposed change to the published ruleset. If voting ends on a defeated proposal, no player may add it to the ruleset.

Talk:303

2006-04-18T04:41:41Z

Sinblox: I declare this proposal carried

Talk:303

2006-04-18T04:41:14Z

Sinblox: /* For */

== Proposer's summary and declarations ==
This is a proposal to add some structure to the way we vote. If you can figure out anyway to format the proposals subsections to look a bit nicer/easier to read that would be appreciated.

== Debate ==
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=2 Add comments]


Per [[210]], rule [[111]] will take precedence if certain criteria is being met. However, I do not see a conflict and I would support this proposal. I do have a suggestion... switch the text in section 2 with section 3.

: Good point. I'll take a look at how I can fix it when I get home tonight. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 09:18, 10 April 2006 (PDT)

Umm...so if it gains enough "against" votes to be defeated, any player may add it to the list of rules? So what's the point of voting it down? [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 21:52, 12 April 2006 (PDT)

:I am generally in favor of the proposal, but think clause 3 "Once a rule has gained the amount of votes it requires in order to become a rule, or it has recieved enough votes to be defeated, any player may modify the game rules to include it" needs to be cleaned up/rewritten for the reason given above. The intent is clear, but I can see this clause being abused to add defeated rules into the game. [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 07:08, 13 April 2006 (PDT)

:: You're right, that was an oversight on my part. I've modified clause 3. Any other suggestions? [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:41, 15 April 2006 (PDT)

:::Gah, guess I'm just picky :) Sorry... I see a problem with clause 2: "No player may modify the article page of a rule when a vote is underway except to place a protection on the page." This could be read "No player may modify the article page of ANY rule when ANY vote is underway...." I think what you want is "No player may modify the article page of a proposal while a vote is being conducted on that proposal, except to place a protection on the page."

:::Clause 3: "3. If a rule gains the amount of "for" votes required in order to become a rule any player may declare the proposal carried and add it to the ruleset. If a rule recieves enough "against" votes to be defeated, any player may declare it defeated" might be better worded "If a rule gains the number of "for" votes required to pass or the number of "against" votes required to be defeated, any player may declare an end to voting on the proposal. If voting ends on a passing proposal, the player who declared the vote ended must immediately make the proposed change to the published ruleset. If voting ends on a defeated proposal, no player may add it to the ruleset." [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 22:24, 15 April 2006 (PDT)

:::: Good amendments, I've added them. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:27, 16 April 2006 (PDT)



== Vote ==
=== For ===
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=4 Add FOR vote]
# [[User:Simulacrum|Simulacrum]] 21:19, 16 April 2006 (PDT)
# [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 07:05, 17 April 2006 (PDT)
# [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 21:41, 17 April 2006 (PDT)
# 

<br />

=== Against ===
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=5 Add AGAINST vote]
# 

__NOEDITSECTION__

Template:Announcements

2006-04-17T03:54:00Z

Sinblox:

<div align="center">
<big><big>Announcements</big></big><br />
<small>
<span class="plainlinks">[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title=Template:Announcements&action=editwatch Watch]</span> - <span class="plainlinks">[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title=Template:Announcements&action=edit Edit]</span>
</small>
</div>

'''Game News:'''

* A page has been created to discuss the direction of the game. Please see [[Game-direction]]
* [[304]] is now an '''active rule'''. It sets a quorom of two (2) players for votes.

The following proposals are up for debate:

* [[303]], a proposal to add structure to the voting process.
* [[305]], a proposal to stop point increase and decreases.
* [[306]], a proposal to clarify what constitutes a proper proposal and provide a method of dealing with improper prosals.
* [[307]], a proposal to repeal rule [[202]].
* [[308]], a proposal to amend rule [[201]] to remove the term "turn."
* [[309]], a proposal to transmute immutable rule [[104]] into a mutable rule. It requires unanimous consent to pass.
'''Meta-News:'''

I changed the sidebar around a bit to have links to the ruleset/proposals. Anyone have any suggestions for it?

New headers have been added to the [[Nomicopolis:Rules_and_proposals_header_boxes|Rules and Proposal headers boxes]] page.

MediaWiki:Sidebar

2006-04-17T03:52:29Z

Sinblox:

MediaWiki:Sidebar

2006-04-17T03:51:55Z

Sinblox:

MediaWiki:Sidebar

2006-04-17T03:50:36Z

Sinblox:

MediaWiki:Sidebar

2006-04-17T03:49:42Z

Sinblox:

User talk:Simulacrum

2006-04-17T02:34:28Z

Sinblox: Nomic.net message board

{| align="center"
|-
|
<div style="text-align: center; margin: 0 10% 1em 10%;">
{| border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="border-top:5px solid black; border-right:5px solid black; border-bottom:5px solid black; border-left:5px solid black;"
|
{|
| <big>'''I am taking a break.'''</big>
|-
| If you need to reach me for any reason please email me at this address: admin-nomicapolis@hotmail.com
|}
|}
</div>
|}


I agree to start the game with the ruleset as outlined [[Current ruleset]]. [[User:Simulacrum|Simulacrum]] 19:45, 30 March 2006 (PST)

:I'll check out the rules sometime tomorrow, heading off to bed in a minute. Sorry for the delay. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 21:43, 30 March 2006 (PST)
:: Sounds good, shall we begin? [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 18:46, 2 April 2006 (PDT)
::: hehe, thanks. the mailing list will probably be a good idea when we have some more players to keep everyone going. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 21:46, 5 April 2006 (PDT)
::::thanks for the sysop, it may come in handy for some of the editing I do. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:58, 7 April 2006 (PDT)

About how I found this place... Well, it's a long story. Basically, I was looking for tips on a roguelike, [http://www.nethack.org Nethack]. I came across a fan-game about it that used [http://www.dvorakgame.co.uk/rules.html Dvorak rules]. From that, I learned about the nomic rules, and found this place from [http://www.nomic.net nomic.net]. [[User:Mari0mega|Mari0mega]] 15:12, 12 April 2006 (PDT)
== Headers ==

Do we have header templates for rule amendments and repeals? [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 22:36, 11 April 2006 (PDT)

== No problem ==

No problem. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 12:21, 14 April 2006 (PDT)

== Nomic.net message board ==

Hey, I was going to post a message on the Nomic.net board to let people know the game is active but it requires you to wait for moderator approval. I don't think it's happening, it's been well over a week. Would you be up for posting something on there to the effect of "Come join us!"? [http://www.nomic.net/~board/phorum/list.php?1 http://www.nomic.net/~board/phorum/list.php?1] [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:34, 16 April 2006 (PDT)

Talk:306/vote-archive-1

2006-04-17T02:28:30Z

Sinblox: /* For */

== Proposer's summary and declarations ==
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=1 Proposer: Add your summary here]
: Clarifies what constitutes a "properly proposed" proposal re: 104/105 (Anybody notice they're identical?) and provides a process for dealing with improper proposals.

== Debate ==
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=2 Add comments]

: I'm all for it. Anyone have any suggestions or should we just bring this to vote? [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:44, 15 April 2006 (PDT)
:: :) Ok, let's vote! [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 22:33, 15 April 2006 (PDT)



== Vote ==
=== For ===
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=4 Add FOR vote]
# [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 22:33, 15 April 2006 (PDT)
# [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:28, 16 April 2006 (PDT)
# 

=== Against ===
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=5 Add AGAINST vote]
# 

__NOEDITSECTION__

Talk:303

2006-04-17T02:27:19Z

Sinblox:

== Proposer's summary and declarations ==
This is a proposal to add some structure to the way we vote. If you can figure out anyway to format the proposals subsections to look a bit nicer/easier to read that would be appreciated.

== Debate ==
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=2 Add comments]


Per [[210]], rule [[111]] will take precedence if certain criteria is being met. However, I do not see a conflict and I would support this proposal. I do have a suggestion... switch the text in section 2 with section 3.

: Good point. I'll take a look at how I can fix it when I get home tonight. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 09:18, 10 April 2006 (PDT)

Umm...so if it gains enough "against" votes to be defeated, any player may add it to the list of rules? So what's the point of voting it down? [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 21:52, 12 April 2006 (PDT)

:I am generally in favor of the proposal, but think clause 3 "Once a rule has gained the amount of votes it requires in order to become a rule, or it has recieved enough votes to be defeated, any player may modify the game rules to include it" needs to be cleaned up/rewritten for the reason given above. The intent is clear, but I can see this clause being abused to add defeated rules into the game. [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 07:08, 13 April 2006 (PDT)

:: You're right, that was an oversight on my part. I've modified clause 3. Any other suggestions? [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:41, 15 April 2006 (PDT)

:::Gah, guess I'm just picky :) Sorry... I see a problem with clause 2: "No player may modify the article page of a rule when a vote is underway except to place a protection on the page." This could be read "No player may modify the article page of ANY rule when ANY vote is underway...." I think what you want is "No player may modify the article page of a proposal while a vote is being conducted on that proposal, except to place a protection on the page."

:::Clause 3: "3. If a rule gains the amount of "for" votes required in order to become a rule any player may declare the proposal carried and add it to the ruleset. If a rule recieves enough "against" votes to be defeated, any player may declare it defeated" might be better worded "If a rule gains the number of "for" votes required to pass or the number of "against" votes required to be defeated, any player may declare an end to voting on the proposal. If voting ends on a passing proposal, the player who declared the vote ended must immediately make the proposed change to the published ruleset. If voting ends on a defeated proposal, no player may add it to the ruleset." [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 22:24, 15 April 2006 (PDT)

:::: Good amendments, I've added them. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:27, 16 April 2006 (PDT)



== Vote ==
=== For ===
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=4 Add FOR vote]
# 

<br />
=== Against ===
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=5 Add AGAINST vote]
# 

__NOEDITSECTION__

303

2006-04-17T02:26:39Z

Sinblox:

{{Proposed rule}}

1. When a rule is proposed, there will be a period of three days of debate until it may be voted on.

1.1 If any player requests it, the debate time will be extended until this player is satisfied or they have abandoned the discussion.

1.1.1 This objection time may be overridden at anytime by the player who proposed the rule thus bringing the proposal straight to a vote.

1.1.2 If three days have elapsed and there is already votes registered for a proposal, no player may extend debate time, including the player who proposed it.

1.2 The proposing player may declare the proposal ready for vote before the three days have elapsed.

2. No player may modify the article page of a proposal while a vote is being conducted on that proposal, except to place a protection on the page.

3. If a rule gains the number of "for" votes required to pass or the number of "against" votes required to be defeated, any player may declare an end to voting on the proposal. If voting ends on a passing proposal, the player who declared the vote ended must immediately make the proposed change to the published ruleset. If voting ends on a defeated proposal, no player may add it to the ruleset.

Game-direction

2006-04-17T02:18:13Z

Sinblox:

Page by [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]]

Nomicopolis is off to a pretty good start right now. It'll be a bit bumpy while we get used to the rules and form a real game but I'm enjoying it already. I created this discussion page so we can discuss the game direction over all. Feel free to add sections and comment on anything.

== Players ==

There's three of us active right now and two on the census that haven't posted in at least a few days. I'm going to attempt to contact them. It will give the chance of unanimous consent on [[309]] which requires it. I think we may need to make a proposal that declares players inactive after a certain amount of inactivity.

If anyone knows of any people who may be interested, this game could easily take on a few more players.

== Governor General? ==

I haven't yet proposed this, I'd just like to get some feedback on it.

Governor General:

''
# There shall always be a player designated "Governor General". This player's authority is activated when a player has the won the game or the game is unplayable or when there is unanimous consent for their powers to be activated.
#The Governor General is elected by a simple majority. The Governor General may be recalled from their position at any time by a simple majority.
#The Governor General may resign at any time without consequence.
#When the Governor General's powers are activated their role is to make the game playable again. To do so, they have the authority to repeal rules, amend rules and to reset any attributes such as point counts of all players to an equal amount. The Governor General should make the minimum amount of changes possible to make the game workable again and should make all players equal in status.
#Any changes the Governor General makes when their powers are activated is completely up to their discrestion, but may be over ridden by unanimous consent (excluding the Governor General in this vote.)''
#Once the Governor General's powers have been activated and they have finished making the game playable and equalizing players, they shall no longer be Governor General and a new election for this title shall be called. This does not preclude this player from becoming Governor General again.

:In theory I'm in favor of player differentiation such as unique roles for players. I had been toying with the idea of proposing the position of '''Supreme Grammarian''' whose job is to summarily correct grammar and spelling errors in the rules. I have an English degree and am certified to teach English (though I'm teaching science - go figure) and minor errors occasionally glare out at me. This game is the ultimate rules-lawyer game and these errors could potentially be abused. Another idea would be the '''Metanomic General.''' This position would rotate through the players - once its power is used, the position would automatically rotate to the next player on the census. The power is this: The Metanomic General would devise a meta-rule which provides some stylish limit or outline which rule change proposals must follow in order to be considered proper. A meta-rule would last a month, at which time the next MG would implement his meta-rule. Examples might be: Rule proposals must be in verse; Rule proposals may not use the letter "e"; Rule proposals must consist of a single sentence; etc.
:Anyway, the Governer General is a good idea. I think that, if winning simply resets the game, then there should be some in-game benefit for previous game winners - that way there's some built-in incentive to win. [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 22:06, 15 April 2006 (PDT)

:: I like those suggestions, especially the '''Supreme Grammarian'''. My nomic experience is pretty limited but I have seen well-meaning rules exploited by very minor loop holes, so someone who can copy edit would be good in keeping our rules tight. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:18, 16 April 2006 (PDT)

== Rule 301 ==

I want to bring to attention a potential flaw in rule 301. Rule 301 states:

''In a vote, the following definitions will apply for consent or failure: A simple majority shall constitute a number greater than 50% of total votes. A supermajority shall constitute at least 66% of total votes. Unaminous consent shall constitute all votes being positive.''

In reality, a simple majority is whatever recieves the biggest chunk of the vote, whether or not it's 50% or more.

Now, at this point it doesn't matter, we only have "for" and "against" things we vote for. Consider, however, if in the future we were electing someone to a title such as the Governor General suggestion I made.

Player A recieves 35% of the vote
Player B recieves 40% of the vote
Player C recieves 25% of the vote

In this case, since our simply majority constitutes 50% of the vote, none of these players are electable. Is it agreed that we need to change the definition of simple majority to just mean the majority of the votes against all else, and create a new definition of "absolute majority" which is 50% or more of the vote?

:Actually, in "real life" a simple majority IS 50% or more. The largest chunk of the votes as in your ABC example is called a ''plurality''. We may need to amend this rule to include pluralities. [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 21:47, 15 April 2006 (PDT)

:: Ooops. You're right. How does this sound?

''In a vote, the following definitions will apply for consent or failure: A simple majority shall constitute a number greater than 50% of total votes. A supermajority shall constitute at least 66% of total votes. Unaminous consent shall constitute all votes being positive. In a vote in which there are more than two options (for example, when there is an election for a title and there are three candidates running), the option which recieves the greatest number of votes will win.'' [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:18, 16 April 2006 (PDT)

Game-direction

2006-04-16T03:45:38Z

Sinblox:

Game-direction

2006-04-16T03:33:02Z

Sinblox:

Template:Announcements

2006-04-16T03:27:14Z

Sinblox:

<div align="center">
<big><big>Announcements</big></big><br />
<small>
<span class="plainlinks">[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title=Template:Announcements&action=editwatch Watch]</span> - <span class="plainlinks">[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title=Template:Announcements&action=edit Edit]</span>
</small>
</div>

'''Game News:'''

* A page has been created to discuss the direction of the game. Please see [[Game-direction]]
* [[304]] is now an '''active rule'''. It sets a quorom of two (2) players for votes.

The following proposals are up for debate:

* [[303]], a proposal to add structure to the voting process.
* [[305]], a proposal to stop point increase and decreases.
* [[306]], a proposal to clarify what constitutes a proper proposal and provide a method of dealing with improper prosals.
* [[307]], a proposal to repeal rule [[202]].
* [[308]], a proposal to amend rule [[201]] to remove the term "turn."
* [[309]], a proposal to transmute immutable rule [[104]] into a mutable rule. It requires unanimous consent to pass.
'''Meta-News:'''

New headers have been added to the [[Nomicopolis:Rules_and_proposals_header_boxes|Rules and Proposal headers boxes]] page.

Game-direction

2006-04-16T03:25:34Z

Sinblox: /* Governor General? */

Game-direction

2006-04-16T03:23:49Z

Sinblox:

Template:Announcements

2006-04-16T02:55:21Z

Sinblox:

<div align="center">
<big><big>Announcements</big></big><br />
<small>
<span class="plainlinks">[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title=Template:Announcements&action=editwatch Watch]</span> - <span class="plainlinks">[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title=Template:Announcements&action=edit Edit]</span>
</small>
</div>

'''Game News:'''

* [[304]] is now an '''active rule'''. It sets a quorom of two (2) players for votes.

The following proposals are up for debate:

* [[303]], a proposal to add structure to the voting process.
* [[305]], a proposal to stop point increase and decreases.
* [[306]], a proposal to clarify what constitutes a proper proposal and provide a method of dealing with improper prosals.
* [[307]], a proposal to repeal rule [[202]].
* [[308]], a proposal to amend rule [[201]] to remove the term "turn."
* [[309]], a proposal to transmute immutable rule [[104]] into a mutable rule. It requires unanimous consent to pass.
'''Meta-News:'''

New headers have been added to the [[Nomicopolis:Rules_and_proposals_header_boxes|Rules and Proposal headers boxes]] page.

Talk:309

2006-04-16T02:50:29Z

Sinblox: /* For */

Talk:309

2006-04-16T02:50:12Z

Sinblox: /* Proposer's summary and declarations */

Talk:309

2006-04-16T02:48:37Z

Sinblox:

309

2006-04-16T02:48:25Z

Sinblox:

{{Transmute to mutable|105}}
All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.

309

2006-04-16T02:48:04Z

Sinblox:

Talk:306/vote-archive-1

2006-04-16T02:44:07Z

Sinblox: /* Debate */

== Proposer's summary and declarations ==
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=1 Proposer: Add your summary here]
: Clarifies what constitutes a "properly proposed" proposal re: 104/105 (Anybody notice they're identical?) and provides a process for dealing with improper proposals.

== Debate ==
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=2 Add comments]

: I'm all for it. Anyone have any suggestions or should we just bring this to vote? [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:44, 15 April 2006 (PDT)



== Vote ==
=== For ===
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=4 Add FOR vote]
# 

=== Against ===
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=5 Add AGAINST vote]
# 

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Talk:303

2006-04-16T02:41:31Z

Sinblox:

303

2006-04-16T02:40:41Z

Sinblox:

{{Proposed rule}}

1. When a rule is proposed, there will be a period of three days of debate until it may be voted on.

1.1 If any player requests it, the debate time will be extended until this player is satisfied or they have abandoned the discussion.

1.1.1 This objection time may be overridden at anytime by the player who proposed the rule thus bringing the proposal straight to a vote.

1.1.2 If three days have elapsed and there is already votes registered for a proposal, no player may extend debate time, including the player who proposed it.

1.2 The proposing player may declare the proposal ready for vote before the three days have elapsed.

2. No player may modify the article page of a rule when a vote is underway except to place a protection on the page.

3. If a rule gains the amount of "for" votes required in order to become a rule any player may declare the proposal carried and add it to the ruleset. If a rule recieves enough "against" votes to be defeated, any player may declare it defeated.

Talk:307

2006-04-16T02:36:08Z

Sinblox: /* Debate */ add sig

Please substitute this template. To do so add '''subst:''' in the template call. This is how it should look typed: <big><nowiki>{{</nowiki>subst:vote<nowiki>}}</nowiki></big> <br /> When it is fixed please remove these instructions by editing the page normally.



== Proposer's summary and declarations ==
I think this is the right way to go about repealing a rule, but correct me if I am wrong while we all get used to this.

Rule 202 states:

''One turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) subtracting 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiply the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer. (This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.)''

Right now we have a proposal to remove the ability to achieve points for a temporary amount of time and it will likely pass, which will nullify half of this rule. The other half restricts the way we introduce rules, which may be OK for playing in person but it would not work very well on the internet.

Unless anyone has any amendments or problems with this rule, feel free to vote on this proposal 24 hours after this time stamp. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 18:48, 14 April 2006 (PDT)

== Debate ==
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=2 Add comments]

: Ok, I'm teetering on the brink on this proposal. If [[202]] is repealed, what does a turn consist of? [[201]] says that players may take a turn at any time, but there's nothing left saying what a turn is. Along with this, we probably need to amend [[201]] to read "A player may propose a rule at any time." Any thoughts? [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 19:39, 14 April 2006 (PDT)
:: It's a good point. I voted for your proposal [[308]], let's get that passed before we do this. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:36, 15 April 2006 (PDT)


== Vote ==
=== For ===
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=4 Add FOR vote]
# 

<br />
=== Against ===
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=5 Add AGAINST vote]
# 

__NOEDITSECTION__

Talk:307

2006-04-16T02:35:53Z

Sinblox: /* Debate */

Please substitute this template. To do so add '''subst:''' in the template call. This is how it should look typed: <big><nowiki>{{</nowiki>subst:vote<nowiki>}}</nowiki></big> <br /> When it is fixed please remove these instructions by editing the page normally.



== Proposer's summary and declarations ==
I think this is the right way to go about repealing a rule, but correct me if I am wrong while we all get used to this.

Rule 202 states:

''One turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) subtracting 291 from the ordinal number of their proposal and multiply the result by the fraction of favorable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer. (This yields a number between 0 and 10 for the first player, with the upper limit increasing by one each turn; more points are awarded for more popular proposals.)''

Right now we have a proposal to remove the ability to achieve points for a temporary amount of time and it will likely pass, which will nullify half of this rule. The other half restricts the way we introduce rules, which may be OK for playing in person but it would not work very well on the internet.

Unless anyone has any amendments or problems with this rule, feel free to vote on this proposal 24 hours after this time stamp. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 18:48, 14 April 2006 (PDT)

== Debate ==
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=2 Add comments]

: Ok, I'm teetering on the brink on this proposal. If [[202]] is repealed, what does a turn consist of? [[201]] says that players may take a turn at any time, but there's nothing left saying what a turn is. Along with this, we probably need to amend [[201]] to read "A player may propose a rule at any time." Any thoughts? [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 19:39, 14 April 2006 (PDT)
:: It's a good point. I voted for your proposal [[308]], let's get that passed before we do this.


== Vote ==
=== For ===
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=4 Add FOR vote]
# 

<br />
=== Against ===
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=5 Add AGAINST vote]
# 

__NOEDITSECTION__

Talk:308

2006-04-16T02:34:48Z

Sinblox:

Please substitute this template. To do so add '''subst:''' in the template call. This is how it should look typed: <big><nowiki>{{</nowiki>subst:vote<nowiki>}}</nowiki></big> <br /> When it is fixed please remove these instructions by editing the page normally.



== Proposer's summary and declarations ==
Ok, this is a response to proposal [[307]]. If we get rid of what a turn is, we should get change the term in the rule that allows "turns". Otherwise, someone might be able to make an argument for doing something wacky ("This turn, I instate 5 rules without allowing a vote on them. Voting is no longer a part of 'turns'" or something. This exact situation I believe is covered by other rules, but someone might be able to abuse the lack of clarity in what a "turn" means). I wanted to get this proposal in before [[307]] had been voted on, because if it passes, then an argument could be made that a turn no longer involves making a proposal, therefore proposals can no longer be made.

As is, [[201]] reads: "A Player may take a turn at any time. All players begin with zero points." [[User:Applejuicefool|Applejuicefool]] 19:55, 14 April 2006 (PDT)
== Debate ==
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=2 Add comments]

This is a good point. I'm for it. [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:34, 15 April 2006 (PDT)


== Vote ==
=== For ===
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=4 Add FOR vote]
# [[User:Sinblox|sinblox]] 19:34, 15 April 2006 (PDT)
# 

<br />
=== Against ===
[http://www.editthis.info/Nomicapolis/index.php?title={{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}&action=edit&section=5 Add AGAINST vote]
# 

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