Talk:Transgenics RP

From Egs Mayhem

(Difference between revisions)
(THIS IS WHERE THE TRANSGENICS DISCUSSION SHOULD BE)
(Posted both here and there.)
 
Line 52: Line 52:
----
----
 +
 +
Now I never said that I didn't think they would react to him, just as I said that he would react to anything that was unknown to him happening. In this case it was after on of the traps he had was sent off and he saw a group of "people" standing around sneaking up to his place (some of whom held weapons). Now he told them that that they better move it into the hole, after their protests he pulled the gun to force them into the hole so that he could hold them until he felt safe with them. The others talked to him and in the end were able to get him to lower his weapon (in part as he felt that if they did something, he was safe in case they did in fact want to kill him). Now as so as that happen you had this exchange take place (all on page .
 +
 +
[quote="Malachy19"]Jack looked around at the others climbing into the pit then back up at the old man.  "Put that gun away and I'll stay in this pit if you'd like.  But I swear, if you ever give even the slightest inclination that you're doublecrossing us, I swear I will make you [i]beg[/i] for death."[/quote]
 +
 +
[quote="Sqauto"]"Fine then, if this ends it." He started to lower the gun ever so much. "Do you feel better now?"[/quote]
 +
 +
[quote="10.0.0.1"]Lurcat had remained silent, not want to make things worse and nodded to C "if you are going to leave us down here can we at least get some water?"[/quote]
 +
 +
[quote="Sqauto"]"Well there is a small room that you will be put in. That would have a bed and somewhere to go to the bathroom. So yes is your answer."[/quote]
 +
 +
[quote="eternaljwh"]Deyanira: "Let'sss get this over with."[/quote]
 +
 +
[quote="Malachy19"]Jack nods.  "Very well, I'll trust you.  For now."[/quote]
 +
 +
[quote="Sqauto"]"Good, that means I'm less likely to kill you then."[/quote]
 +
 +
That was more or less the end of it until [url=http://forums.keenspot.com/viewtopic.php?p=2421381#2421381]this post[/url] (and in fact the issue that set it all off).
 +
 +
[quote="BinaryWraith"][quote="Sqauto"]"Good, that means I'm less likely to kill you then."[/quote]
 +
 +
Stephen glares, and swings his hand forward, the staff arcing into existance halfway through it's arc towards the old man's gun hand. "That's the -last- threat I'll take out of you!"[/quote]
 +
 +
That saw the old man duck and fire towards Stephen while the AI system started to fire warning shots at them before aiming at them after they started to become a threat towards them (something I may have played with after I saw it on one of the Terminator movies). Now the mistake I made was that I figured that Stephen had been shot by the round that was fired at him then.
 +
 +
Now both the AI and the old man are characters that I had talked to Cameo about before I used them. The idea was that it would be a person that wanted to help bring down Nextstep because he had worked for them and their dirty work one way or another. The other reason is that he was to give them the outside help they would need whenever it would come up in the RP as well as help train them and give them a place to rest and wait for the short term until they moved once more to Mikes place. Now I had given a few hints that he would not react to them well if he felt they had been a threat to or against him. Now the basic idea for this character was something that I had taken from something I had for the first version of this RP.
 +
 +
Now as Cameo pointed out, I more or less took over the first RP. There are two things that should be noted about that.
 +
1) One is that the ideas I had for both RP's are ones that I took to her in the first place. If she didn't like them, then they would be dropped with no more said about it.
 +
2) By the time I had taken over that RP, there was really nothing happening for weeks on end. So to kick it every now and then I made a post to move it which some of the others joined in with. When I did so I PM'ed Cameo a few times to inform her that I was doing that until she felt it was worth coming in and taking over, telling me to stop, or to change what I was doing.
 +
 +
At no point did she tell me to stop what I was doing, nor to change it (in fact you PM'ed me to tell me to keep doing that as it made sure the RP was alive). Now all of those things could have been stopped at anytime by her as the GM of the thread. She didn't, so on that point it was her failure to "pull me in" as it were just as it was mine for making that plot when there was none other then get out of the place (there was a what, when and a how, no why or who). The what I worked on that has been called the plot was something that I added to what info Cameo gave about the background to the RP. Now some may not have liked the plot, but there was nothing to have stopped you from working on your own in the first place.
 +
 +
As a note, when the others told Cameo they had an issue with what had happened and the way it was carried out, it looks like she didn't tell anyone anything about this. For one, she didn't tell the others that I had talked to her about the plan I had, nor did she tell me what they felt about that, nor step in to say what should have happened.
 +
 +
Still that wasn't the only thing that killed it. For one, the speed was an issue. At the start of the RP you more or less had people camping and posting every time there was something taking place (as well as posts like this).
 +
 +
[quote="X"](OOC: I have to leave for work now, just auto (someone) on the way back if you need to.)[/quote]
 +
 +
This then lead to many people losing their place and not knowing what was happing (saying nothing about the fact that some people found that their place had either been filled or forgotten about when they fell asleep). Now yes this RP started at the time when a thread would fall to the second page after less then an hour, but that did make some people lose interest as their characters were pushed around by others and nothing was getting done in their eyes.
 +
 +
Now this lead to another interesting outcome. Once the thread started to slow down (after people left to take holidays I may add). Some people saw this as the sign that the RP was dead was the same rate of posting that happened at the start was not happening then. That is something that happens in every RP that has been able to get a basic plot, everyone knows their place and what the others will do. At that point, things start to slow down. This makes those that became used to the speed think that as nothing was happening at the speed it was before, then they see it was no longer fun and look for the reason why it failed. The general answer that is given is "plot", and the person that made said plot. That is something that has happened to many an RP in the past, and something that will happen long until the future. The only way to fix it is to help move things over posting things like this...
 +
 +
[quote="BinaryWraith"](( OOC : *shrugs* It's only been a month and two thirds since we hit this standstill, I'm sure making it two months won't hurt. ))[/quote]
 +
 +
Another issue was the fact that you more or less had characters that would kill the guards who they ran into, and generally in cold blood or before they had more then a small chance to react (no matter how well armed they had been in the first place). The interesting thing about this is that some of these guards are people that they not only had no issue with, but had a type of friendship with them. Did that stop them from stabbing them or finding another interesting method to kill them (even taking pleasure it looked)? No, not really by the ones that felt like they had been taken out of an X-Men comic.
 +
 +
Now on the flip side you had characters that "hated the killing and death". Every time the group saw combat, these people would go around and act about how and wrong it is to kill, yet would do nothing to either stop the ones doing that or talk about why they felt it was wrong to do that (hell, they even helped kill more then a few times). To me, that feels like a Mary Sue more then anything (and yes, these characters had been used for the first time).
 +
 +
Now yes, all of that would lead to showing why they reacted the way they would towards Ishmael (and yes, I can see the way that lead to that). The thing is when I had Ishmael react the way he did because of the reasons given, I was seen as God Moding and Mary Suing by them. Now yes I should have given out more details (hence my mistake that I can see when looking back). But the hints that I had made about him are not out of character for him.
 +
 +
On the point that I killed it because "those who stayed finally had to give up after the [b]month-long[/b] wait for Squato". Now that is an interesting point. As I made this post on the 5th.
 +
 +
[quote="Sqauto"]O.O.C.
 +
 +
[quote="Cameo"]((*readies the Cricket Bat of Timewarp*))[/quote]
 +
 +
I'm going to need to retcon in a sma.ll chat before I do anything. But I can't do it for a few days as I will be working on a important profect for TAFE.
 +
 +
Sorry all, but I need to do this or fail.[/quote]
 +
 +
It was followed by the [url=http://forums.keenspot.com/viewtopic.php?p=2588836#2588836]post[/url] in question on the 17th of the same month. Before that there was little to no action since [url=http://forums.keenspot.com/viewtopic.php?p=2533649#2533649]July the 18th[/url]. Now the funny thing about that is that after this post by myself, no one really posted themselves. Yet I am blamed for this simply for the fact that as I was seen as the issue beforehand, I [b]HAD[/b] to be behind things falling apart.
 +
 +
Now yes, I did infect say I needed to work things in (the 12 days thing). On that point I asked for a RET CON (as in what I needed to say), over asking for no one to post. Yet that ret con (as seen about) is fingered as the reason why they didn't wish to post themselves. Why they didn't, I don't know. The reason I didn't post was I had a life to lead and I had to deal with important matters (work and tests that set my grade for class). Now that was my reason. What was [b]YOURS[/b]?
 +
 +
What’s more, if you wish to blame me for that, GET YOUR ******* FACTS RIGHT!
 +
 +
And no, I am not sorry that my life got in the way of your ego's. That is an issue that you have to deal with yourself.
 +
 +
As a final note, most of the final pages (in which you worked so hard to save it) was nothing more then "lets eat something and talk". Now that is interesting for some people who will make page after page of this....
 +
 +
"X picked up a carrot and started to move it towards their mouth and enjoy a bite when they heard what B had to say. They then placed the carrot on the table and looked towards B. "Oh you need help opening that can. Just let me do this and I'll be over there is a second."
 +
 +
A simple rule of story telling is this. "Action moves plot". That is not action, and it sure as hell is not plot.
 +
 +
In now people will deal with it until the point that they find it uninteresting. At that point they will either tell the GM, or tell people in the thread about it. They do that as they know there will be a reaction that will let others have a chance to do something that isn't just filler/spam. What will turn them away is when the GM either doesn't move to stop that or is in fact one of the people that is doing that and will not step in to get things moving because others are working with their character.
 +
 +
When you GM a thread, you don't just talk softly. You talk softly and use that big ******* stick when needed.
 +
 +
If the GM doesn't care enough about it to do things for the thread and to help it, then what is the point in staying there if you know nothing will happen from the top to fix the issue.
 +
 +
In truth, the RP was dead as soon as the first post was made. All we did was make it stay there for 117 odd pages and two days GT.
 +
 +
(Note, said after more then a few hours working on this, so a little pissed off from need for sleep. This will also be posted there.)

Current revision as of 21:19, 3 November 2006

Cameo: It was said by others that Squato badly bungled the scene where everyone showed up at the old man's house, causing much confusion and, if not being completely responsible for it, at least contributing to its death.

This was because of all the complaints I've received about the way he handled it. The wording could have been better, I admit, but it seemed to be a common point of view.



Well said Cameo, just well said. You do know that that last statement (the one above me) is nothing more then slander. Even more so as it has been a few good months since that event took place.

I would like it pointed out that yes I did make a mistake after I misread a post in the thread. Something that others didn't point out until it became an issue that needed me to pull in a 3rd party (Lommy in this case). After which time I corrected it, and then made an event that I was able to pull in some of the members that hadded posted in a while (based on an idea with you which we talked about in msn). The last real action came about after I asked if I could be given time to post because I was busy with work and didn't want to have a post that was out of place of the rest of the timeframe of the thread. After that I asked everyone to wake me if they needed my characters (who had gone to bed after the events), if and when they wanted to us them for something. Nothing of the sort happened.

-Squato, and pissed off about it.



Excuse me? I'm not trying to say it's the true reason the RP died; though I'm not a lawyer, I believe that rules out it being slanderous. I'm trying to say that some people said that (and they did, although on AIM and such rather than the forum itself). I never even said that it was a widely held opinion (though it certainly seemed to be amongst the people discussing it with me). The inclusion of that statement was merely an attempt to represent multiple views.

As for the incident itself, well... I've heard several contradictory opinions of what should have happened, and I've yet to decide for myself what would have been the best course of action, but it's too late to do anything about it now. In any case, what did happen certainly generated a lot of fallout (I'd say that continuing to be complained to months after the fact fits under this category), and that's a reaction without precedent or successor in a RP of Transgenics' scale (I'd expect it in the War, perhaps, but it wouldn't be nearly as big of a problem in the War).

Finally, this discussion belongs on the talk page, not in the article. - Cameo



So those statements (ones that had been given to you in AIM), are the only facts that you are counting for this then. That peoples views made without my knowledge, and without any means for me to defend myself and my actions is allowed to base a one sided view like that statement above when you wrote this page then. Even more so as the event that you based that statement off took place at least 3 months, and 20 pages before the final post was made in the RP.

Now yes, I admitted that I caused an issue with the thread after I had misread a statement from one of the characters. That statement was after some of the characters made it to the old man's house, and found that he greeted them with a loaded weapon over open arms (a man that had no idea who they are, nor that they would be coming, nor happy that they have weapons on them at the time they meet him). It was that fact which lead to him pointing a weapon at them, and the A.I. on the place turning on them after they made a threat against him and even moved to attack him. That lead to the issue after everyone had a reaction to that which was then the point things went to hell (I figured someone had been shot based on their post from the statement as I read it, a fact I corrected AFTER I used a 3rd party).

Now we all had bad feeling about that event, but we all moved on from there and let it be. Or so it seemed until you made the page for this old RP and listed as the reason for it's death as MY fault, and only my fault.

Now you stated in your defence that there was a number of issues for why this RP failed in the end (it had over a 100 pages, and hence a good run for many RP's). Only, other then the vague statement of "that once the first major plot arc was closed, the RP began to die." without giving any facts or points as to what that is, you have only listed an event by me as the issue that lead to the fall of the thread, Other then that, no other point is made or given to explain the how and why of the demise of this RP other then something that is based on opinion over anything else.

To me, that is a case of slander as you posted this one sided information which was based only on the views of others given to you in AIM, and no other facts. The fact that it was posted here as fact makes this defamation as what is posted here would be seen as fact by a reader that wanted to find out something in regards to this RP. Now that isn't the end of it, since you based that statement on the views of others and presented that as the only fact on this and no other, what you have here is bias for that fact.

Now you stated that you had wanted "multiple views" about why the thread is now dead. To help that, there are a few of the reasons that have been given that I know of for the fall of this thread. It is only fair that these reasons also be listed. 1) The fact that the thread was filled with God Mod and Mary Sue characters (in part as this was their first RP). 2) Many of the people in the thread either didn't notice, or ignored the actions or some of the posters. 3) many members found the RP to be boring (some to the point they quit before they made their escape from the lab). 4) Bad GM'ing for the fact that you let these issues happen, didn't step in to end them, nor do anything to get the RP moving once it settled into a rut.

Now on that point about War. Yes we have issues, but if the issue states to get out of hand we (the GM's) step in and work out the problem. If it is minor enough, we make a call then. When the issue is larger then that, then we get another GM to help or take it to all the GM's. Now there are things that we do wrong, but we try to fix things and deal with the players so that everyone that is part of War not only knows what is going on, but has fun doing so.

So yes, you may not like the fact that I replied to that statement in here over the talk page or anywhere else. But the fact remains that YOU made that statement, YOU fingered me, and YOU based that on statements made against me which I believe they never wanted to be made public in the first place. As that statement was made as public as it was without any other real views, other then what is show about. for that reason I felt it was right to post a counter point here as that statement names me and only me as the reason for that fact.

-Squato, still pissed off.


Now I never said that I didn't think they would react to him, just as I said that he would react to anything that was unknown to him happening. In this case it was after on of the traps he had was sent off and he saw a group of "people" standing around sneaking up to his place (some of whom held weapons). Now he told them that that they better move it into the hole, after their protests he pulled the gun to force them into the hole so that he could hold them until he felt safe with them. The others talked to him and in the end were able to get him to lower his weapon (in part as he felt that if they did something, he was safe in case they did in fact want to kill him). Now as so as that happen you had this exchange take place (all on page .

[quote="Malachy19"]Jack looked around at the others climbing into the pit then back up at the old man. "Put that gun away and I'll stay in this pit if you'd like. But I swear, if you ever give even the slightest inclination that you're doublecrossing us, I swear I will make you [i]beg[/i] for death."[/quote]

[quote="Sqauto"]"Fine then, if this ends it." He started to lower the gun ever so much. "Do you feel better now?"[/quote]

[quote="10.0.0.1"]Lurcat had remained silent, not want to make things worse and nodded to C "if you are going to leave us down here can we at least get some water?"[/quote]

[quote="Sqauto"]"Well there is a small room that you will be put in. That would have a bed and somewhere to go to the bathroom. So yes is your answer."[/quote]

[quote="eternaljwh"]Deyanira: "Let'sss get this over with."[/quote]

[quote="Malachy19"]Jack nods. "Very well, I'll trust you. For now."[/quote]

[quote="Sqauto"]"Good, that means I'm less likely to kill you then."[/quote]

That was more or less the end of it until [url=http://forums.keenspot.com/viewtopic.php?p=2421381#2421381]this post[/url] (and in fact the issue that set it all off).

[quote="BinaryWraith"][quote="Sqauto"]"Good, that means I'm less likely to kill you then."[/quote]

Stephen glares, and swings his hand forward, the staff arcing into existance halfway through it's arc towards the old man's gun hand. "That's the -last- threat I'll take out of you!"[/quote]

That saw the old man duck and fire towards Stephen while the AI system started to fire warning shots at them before aiming at them after they started to become a threat towards them (something I may have played with after I saw it on one of the Terminator movies). Now the mistake I made was that I figured that Stephen had been shot by the round that was fired at him then.

Now both the AI and the old man are characters that I had talked to Cameo about before I used them. The idea was that it would be a person that wanted to help bring down Nextstep because he had worked for them and their dirty work one way or another. The other reason is that he was to give them the outside help they would need whenever it would come up in the RP as well as help train them and give them a place to rest and wait for the short term until they moved once more to Mikes place. Now I had given a few hints that he would not react to them well if he felt they had been a threat to or against him. Now the basic idea for this character was something that I had taken from something I had for the first version of this RP.

Now as Cameo pointed out, I more or less took over the first RP. There are two things that should be noted about that. 1) One is that the ideas I had for both RP's are ones that I took to her in the first place. If she didn't like them, then they would be dropped with no more said about it. 2) By the time I had taken over that RP, there was really nothing happening for weeks on end. So to kick it every now and then I made a post to move it which some of the others joined in with. When I did so I PM'ed Cameo a few times to inform her that I was doing that until she felt it was worth coming in and taking over, telling me to stop, or to change what I was doing.

At no point did she tell me to stop what I was doing, nor to change it (in fact you PM'ed me to tell me to keep doing that as it made sure the RP was alive). Now all of those things could have been stopped at anytime by her as the GM of the thread. She didn't, so on that point it was her failure to "pull me in" as it were just as it was mine for making that plot when there was none other then get out of the place (there was a what, when and a how, no why or who). The what I worked on that has been called the plot was something that I added to what info Cameo gave about the background to the RP. Now some may not have liked the plot, but there was nothing to have stopped you from working on your own in the first place.

As a note, when the others told Cameo they had an issue with what had happened and the way it was carried out, it looks like she didn't tell anyone anything about this. For one, she didn't tell the others that I had talked to her about the plan I had, nor did she tell me what they felt about that, nor step in to say what should have happened.

Still that wasn't the only thing that killed it. For one, the speed was an issue. At the start of the RP you more or less had people camping and posting every time there was something taking place (as well as posts like this).

[quote="X"](OOC: I have to leave for work now, just auto (someone) on the way back if you need to.)[/quote]

This then lead to many people losing their place and not knowing what was happing (saying nothing about the fact that some people found that their place had either been filled or forgotten about when they fell asleep). Now yes this RP started at the time when a thread would fall to the second page after less then an hour, but that did make some people lose interest as their characters were pushed around by others and nothing was getting done in their eyes.

Now this lead to another interesting outcome. Once the thread started to slow down (after people left to take holidays I may add). Some people saw this as the sign that the RP was dead was the same rate of posting that happened at the start was not happening then. That is something that happens in every RP that has been able to get a basic plot, everyone knows their place and what the others will do. At that point, things start to slow down. This makes those that became used to the speed think that as nothing was happening at the speed it was before, then they see it was no longer fun and look for the reason why it failed. The general answer that is given is "plot", and the person that made said plot. That is something that has happened to many an RP in the past, and something that will happen long until the future. The only way to fix it is to help move things over posting things like this...

[quote="BinaryWraith"](( OOC : *shrugs* It's only been a month and two thirds since we hit this standstill, I'm sure making it two months won't hurt. ))[/quote]

Another issue was the fact that you more or less had characters that would kill the guards who they ran into, and generally in cold blood or before they had more then a small chance to react (no matter how well armed they had been in the first place). The interesting thing about this is that some of these guards are people that they not only had no issue with, but had a type of friendship with them. Did that stop them from stabbing them or finding another interesting method to kill them (even taking pleasure it looked)? No, not really by the ones that felt like they had been taken out of an X-Men comic.

Now on the flip side you had characters that "hated the killing and death". Every time the group saw combat, these people would go around and act about how and wrong it is to kill, yet would do nothing to either stop the ones doing that or talk about why they felt it was wrong to do that (hell, they even helped kill more then a few times). To me, that feels like a Mary Sue more then anything (and yes, these characters had been used for the first time).

Now yes, all of that would lead to showing why they reacted the way they would towards Ishmael (and yes, I can see the way that lead to that). The thing is when I had Ishmael react the way he did because of the reasons given, I was seen as God Moding and Mary Suing by them. Now yes I should have given out more details (hence my mistake that I can see when looking back). But the hints that I had made about him are not out of character for him.

On the point that I killed it because "those who stayed finally had to give up after the [b]month-long[/b] wait for Squato". Now that is an interesting point. As I made this post on the 5th.

[quote="Sqauto"]O.O.C.

[quote="Cameo"]((*readies the Cricket Bat of Timewarp*))[/quote]

I'm going to need to retcon in a sma.ll chat before I do anything. But I can't do it for a few days as I will be working on a important profect for TAFE.

Sorry all, but I need to do this or fail.[/quote]

It was followed by the [url=http://forums.keenspot.com/viewtopic.php?p=2588836#2588836]post[/url] in question on the 17th of the same month. Before that there was little to no action since [url=http://forums.keenspot.com/viewtopic.php?p=2533649#2533649]July the 18th[/url]. Now the funny thing about that is that after this post by myself, no one really posted themselves. Yet I am blamed for this simply for the fact that as I was seen as the issue beforehand, I [b]HAD[/b] to be behind things falling apart.

Now yes, I did infect say I needed to work things in (the 12 days thing). On that point I asked for a RET CON (as in what I needed to say), over asking for no one to post. Yet that ret con (as seen about) is fingered as the reason why they didn't wish to post themselves. Why they didn't, I don't know. The reason I didn't post was I had a life to lead and I had to deal with important matters (work and tests that set my grade for class). Now that was my reason. What was [b]YOURS[/b]?

What’s more, if you wish to blame me for that, GET YOUR ******* FACTS RIGHT!

And no, I am not sorry that my life got in the way of your ego's. That is an issue that you have to deal with yourself.

As a final note, most of the final pages (in which you worked so hard to save it) was nothing more then "lets eat something and talk". Now that is interesting for some people who will make page after page of this....

"X picked up a carrot and started to move it towards their mouth and enjoy a bite when they heard what B had to say. They then placed the carrot on the table and looked towards B. "Oh you need help opening that can. Just let me do this and I'll be over there is a second."

A simple rule of story telling is this. "Action moves plot". That is not action, and it sure as hell is not plot.

In now people will deal with it until the point that they find it uninteresting. At that point they will either tell the GM, or tell people in the thread about it. They do that as they know there will be a reaction that will let others have a chance to do something that isn't just filler/spam. What will turn them away is when the GM either doesn't move to stop that or is in fact one of the people that is doing that and will not step in to get things moving because others are working with their character.

When you GM a thread, you don't just talk softly. You talk softly and use that big ******* stick when needed.

If the GM doesn't care enough about it to do things for the thread and to help it, then what is the point in staying there if you know nothing will happen from the top to fix the issue.

In truth, the RP was dead as soon as the first post was made. All we did was make it stay there for 117 odd pages and two days GT.

(Note, said after more then a few hours working on this, so a little pissed off from need for sleep. This will also be posted there.)

Retrieved from "http://72.14.177.54/EGS_Mayhem/Talk:Transgenics_RP"
Personal tools